JACK BEAUMONT INTERVIEW

You must have noticed in the Le Bureau des legendes TV show that when Malotru returns from his mission he drives around Paris for a long time, switches cars in random garages, moves from one crib to another right until he manages to get rid of the fake identity used on the mission and get back to his true self, if he still remembers it, that is.

In Jack Beaumont's novel The Frenchman I found out what agents have to do in order to cross over from one life into another one and it's even more complicated than in the TV show.

The story of how I managed to get to make this interview is a thriller in itself. I will save that story for another day.

Everything would be easier if Jack Beaumont was simply a writer of spy novels. In fact everything would be easier if Jack Beaumont wasn't just a pen name.

Actually he is a retired spy who used to be a fighter pilot in the French Air Force before entering their DGSE secret service. He had to quit flying fighter jets after sustaining a back injury in an emergency landing. He started flying military cargo planes and after a series of clandestine flights passengers from DGSE noticed his skills.

He became an agent specialized in undercover infiltrations abroad, mostly shorter missions where decisions need to be made in split second and every mistake is followed by a lifetime of regrets.

When sleeping issues creeped in and every glance in the street became a source of unease and perceived as a threat for his family and himself, Jack retired.

Today he is in some other line of work and he is doing great.

Jack turned his experience into novels. He offers a dynamic and unpretentious and yet very authentic look into the world of intelligence services and the traumas stemming from these activities. He definitely brought something fresh into this genre that never goes out of fashion.

As a creator of A Civil Servant TV show where I tried to fully shape the identity of the Serbian Secret Service that up until then had some very limited screen exposure, I was very excited to discuss these issues with the guy who does the same thing for one bigger secret service which turned out to be very elusive in terms of pop culture.

I enjoyed this conversation in a way you can enjoy communicating with a consummate professional that knows who needs to know what.

- Your novel doesn't have much to do with James Bond. It's much more realistic and intense and yet you personally and your character share some similarities with Bond. You both come from aristocratic families and your character is the descendant of Hugues de Payns - founder of the Templar order. Bond was also a flyer before he became an agent in some origin stories, even flying covert missions and thus being recruited. How much does James Bond as a character influence people to join secret services in real life?

I imagine it's like for fighter pilots and the movie Top Gun! We all tend to form ideas about worlds we don't know based on movies or books, and certainly, the brain decides to only retain the attractive part of what we see. So, certainly, many, dreaming of becoming James Bond, have decided to join the secret services of their countries. But, as with fighter pilots, once you're there, you quickly realize it's not James Bond.

For my part, it was a continuation. Joining the military and serving my country was indeed likely in my blood and upbringing, and that's why I wanted my main character to also have that weight, or family tradition, on his shoulders. Then, when a doctor told me I couldn't fly anymore due to the back surgeries I had after my accident and I was offered to take the tests for the DGSE, it seemed logical to me.

 - When we speak of literary influences, one of the best depictions of French clandestine operations was OAS in Frederick Forsyth's The Day of the Jackal. And I personally feel your novel compares favorably to Forsyth's best work. Who were your literary influences?

Thank you very much for this comparison! I am myself a big fan of Frederick Forsyth! Few authors of spy novels have created truly realistic works that delve into the profound darkness of the world of espionage, its slowness, and complexity. Many, while still very enjoyable to read, provide a vision closer to Hollywood clichés and further from reality. The others who have left a mark on me are John Le Carré, Tom Clancy, Robert Ludlum, and Graham Greene, not forgetting, of course, 'I Am Pilgrim' by Terry Hayes.

- Your first language is French and yet the initial edition of your novel is in English and the French edition features a translator. In which language did you write the initial manuscript?

I wrote it, like Dark Arena, in English. My mother was English, and I live in Australia, so it seemed logical to me and also gave me access to a larger market. I participated in the French translation in order to incorporate the correct terminologies and to maintain the spirit of the original book.

 - Did you send the manuscript to DGSE to get approval?

Not the manuscript, but I informed them that I was writing a novel. Some leave the Service and write fairly autobiographical books, and besides being prohibited, it's a mistake. It's a mistake because the world of intelligence is intentionally very compartmentalized, and one never truly knows the entirety of an operation, its actors, and its scope. So, by writing an autobiography, one can unknowingly put at risk certain individuals involved, or agents still in the field. Since I still have friends who work there, it was out of the question for me to subject them to any additional unnecessary risk. Therefore, I wrote a novel, which doesn't require validation from the DGSE.

- Joe Weisberg, the guy who created The Americans TV show wrote a spy novel and used the redaction as a device. Major parts of the text were simply covered in black. Eventually, CIA's internal newsletter even wrote a review about the novel and the colleagues who read it pretty much hated it. Did you get some press on DGSE message boards or internal newsletters?

No, not to my knowledge. Generally, when a former member writes a book after leaving, there is an internal memo requesting that no one from the Company contacts the author anymore. So, it's also a way to buy one's freedom and no longer be bound to the Service. However, the only feedback I've had was rather positive.

- How do you feel about retired secret service guys all over the world who write books as soon as they leave the field and sometimes say very unfavorable things about their agencies?

As I mentioned earlier, some indeed write autobiographies in which they can express their frustrations and point out dysfunctions, and to me, that's a mistake. Like in all organizations or societies, there are certainly internal dysfunctions, and some people experience them negatively. But that's not a reason to expose them to the public. It does no good to the institution and generally gives a bad look of the one who criticizes them.

- Spy novels by great masters like le Carre always include families of main characters which counters the Bond paradigm that secret agent can't have a family. In a seminal TV show The Americans Soviet undercover spies have a family as well. However your depiction of family in The Frenchman takes this subject to a new level. Was this family dynamic something that you consider to be your genuine contribution to the genre?

Yes, absolutely, even though I don't claim to bring any particular contribution to the genre. But I do think that in most spy novels or series, we see a spy who is single and childless, whereas in real life, a vast majority of us are married and parents. This family life is supposed to be the anchor that brings us back and grounds us to reality after a mission under a false identity, and what the public may not necessarily perceive is that this is where the real danger and difficulty lie. The identification of our family by an adversary service can be used as leverage for manipulation to turn an agent, and becoming oneself again after an operation is very difficult psychologically.

 - Unlike Bond, Alec never has sexual or romantic relations with his marks even though he often gets very close to them. It's two novels by now and it feels that Alex not having sex with his marks is getting noticeable - like Batman and Superman not killing people. Will it change in further instalments?

Perhaps, I'm not yet decided on that. I wrote the first two novels based on my own life and my own decisions in the field, but that's only 'my' reality. Perhaps now, I need to detach myself from the main character and let him have his own moral codes and make his own decisions, maybe for the reader's enjoyment.

- DGSE kept a very low profile but now you happen to live in Australia which is very close to New Zealand where the Rainbow Warrior affair happened and eventually became the most publicized controversy of the French secret service. Do you sometimes feel the fallout of that event in Australian public?

Yes, it happened to me for the first time a few weeks ago during a public speaking speaking for Dark Arena’s promotion. One of the audience members asked the question with a lot of emotion, asking me if I considered that operation a success or a failure. I replied to him that, aside from the fact that I wasn't involved as I was about 10 years old at the time, it was clearly a failure because when a Secret Service operation is a success, by definition nobody hears about it!

- Through the character of Colonel you gave us a very interesting look into ISI, infamous Pakistani secret service that was known for all kinds of two-faced actions but also for high-efficiency. This is the best character of a Middle Eastern security service chies since Hani Pasha from David Ignatius novel and Ridley Scott film Body of Lies. Which of the less-known security services do you admire the most?

The description of this character and his professional capabilities was in no way a sign of admiration for the ISI, which is known for its brutality.

It's a difficult question because the lesser-known 'small services' often have limited resources and therefore specialize in thematic targets they can handle, unable to cover everything. For example, some are well-known for their capabilities in cyber, while others may specialize in certain difficult-to-penetrate Asian countries. In the 'big' Services with more resources and means, methodologies are very different and generally have historical origins, such as France with the Resistance during the Second World War.

- One of the most interesting parts of your novel is how the main character maintains his anonymity and covers. Paris is a huge metropolis and it is easier to maintain anonymity in such a city. In Serbia, for example, working for the Secret Service is a badge of honor and people don't conceal it as much since it is a much smaller community. Did you notice such different approaches among your colleagues around the world?

Yes, even though generally those who can openly display their affiliation with the Services in their country often work for domestic intelligence. When countries have some, operatives, who work under false identities abroad, must protect their 'real life' and remain very discreet even within a small community. But it is true that in some countries, intelligence carries a negative connotation while in others it is glorified.

- One of the reasons DGSE kept a low profile was also its handling of the popular culture. Admittedly there were Bond-like novels and movies by Jean Bruce about OSS117 but this character eventually became popular as a Jean Dujardin spoof much later. In seventies movies French secret services were depicted as villains in local political thrillers. Even when glamorous Vincent Cassel and Monica Bellucci made Agents Secrets it wasn't really a showcase for DGSE. But now things are changing with your novel and Le Bureau TV show. Do you feel that DGSE intentionally kept a low profile in popular culture?

As I mentioned earlier, I think there are historical reasons for this. France is not among the countries where intelligence is well perceived. In the collective mentality, it is seen as a necessary evil, and those who work in it are considered untrustworthy. Therefore, the DGSE has kept a low profile, most likely for these reasons, but perhaps it's not a bad thing for a Secret Service...

- When Nic Pizzolatto shared information that he is writing the adaptation of your book, the novel got its global recognition. It came as a surprise since Nic Pizzolatto is an elite screenwriter and usually trades report on his every move. However this collaboration was kept under wraps - there were no film rights announcements, no producers mentioned, just him suddenly announcing the script. How did you connect and what is the plan?

What I can share is that I sold my rights to Inkfactory, which produced The Night Manager. They were the ones who contacted Nic, who, after reading the book, agreed to be the scriptwriter for the TV series adaptation. I was very lucky because Nic is extremely talented and immediately fully understood the darkness and psychological complexity of the world of espionage, just like the leaders of Inkfactory, who happen to be the sons of John Le Carré!

- Would you accept some fundamental changes like Alec becoming an American?

Even though I maintain involvement in the project to ensure that the series, if it happens, remains as realistic as the book, I don't think I'll be able to refuse the changes decided by the producers or the studio. Of course, I hope Alec will remain an operative of the DGSE because other shows are generally about the CIA or MI6, but also because it would provide a different geopolitical perspective.

- Le Bureau is also getting an American remake, do you think it could be beneficial for The Frenchman's journey to the screen?

No, I don't think there could be an impact. The American version of Le Bureau will certainly be about the CIA, I guess... But that's also why I believe the adaptation of my book should remain about the DGSE in order to differentiate itself.

- Nic worked on a film with Melanie Laurent so he is accustomed with French industry. Is there a chance his script gets turned into a French-language production?

I don't know. Maybe one day! What's certain is that his script for the pilot episode is absolutely amazing and left me speechless.

- Who would be your casting choices for the main characters?

An actor who is capable of appearing as both kind and villainous, and who can portray both a beggar and a minister equally well. Like a real spy. But I think the most important thing is that it's someone who understands the psychology of this very particular world and fully invests in the role.

- Serbs, Bosnia and Kosovo lurk in the background of this novel as a part of your character's past. But there are flashes of those experiences. Were you still a Mirage pilot when the French fighter plane was shot down over Bosnia and pilots got captured? How did the pilot ranks feel about that rather controversial affair?

I was still training at that time, but I remember that of course it was very concerning for all of us as you never want your brothers in arms to suffer or to die.

As a military man, we obey the orders given by our command, and the designated enemies are the enemies. Period. There's no room for thinking otherwise.

The conflicts of a certain era result from political decisions made in the preceding 10 or 20 years based on other events... If this war had occurred after 9/11, perhaps the international community would have taken the opposite side... who knows!

- Serbian public perceives French secret services as traditionally inclined to our cause based on shared efforts in the Great War and even some later developments like civil war in Zaire in late nineties and finally Pierre-Henri Bunel leaking NATO attack plans to our military in 1999. Does this kinship actually exist in the French intelligence community or is it just a misconception of Serbian public?

It is generally very well known among French military personnel that the Serbs have been among our closest allies, whether during the Napoleonic wars or afterward. But as I was saying, sometimes the political decisions of an era could have been totally different a few years earlier or later, and military people have to obey that decision.

- In your new novel you explore the war for energy as the crucial conflict of our time. It covers the timeline after The Frenchman and up until the Russian invasion of Ukraine. You have some very interesting opinions about this war which are not so mainstream in the West. What were the reactions to Dark Arena and did it stir up controversy?

Generally, I've had very good feedback on my second book, Dark Arena. People often say it's better or even more gripping than The Frenchman, and that the geopolitical vision in which the story is set had opened their minds to what may have caused this war as it’s not so mainstream! What's interesting is that I wrote this plot in 2021 and 2022... You can infer whatever you want from it...:-)

- A lot of secret service operatives admit they are avid readers because their work includes a lot of traveling and waiting. Did you become an avid reader on the job?

It's true that there's a lot of waiting, but it's generally the kind of waiting where you have to be very vigilant of your surroundings, or even observe directly and not miss the target. So, I read more during that time than before, but without becoming an avid reader. However, that's where I learned to write! Everything we do must be written in the smallest detail and the finest description, all in the third person. Therefore, each end-of-mission report resembles a little novel.

- What is the consensus most favorite spy novel among secret service operatives and what is their favorite spy movie?

I imagine it depends on which service you ask and in which country! But generally, John Le Carré is considered as being the king. For movies, it's somewhat similar, and as for the French, Les Patriotes with Yvan Attal, directed in 2014 by Eric Rochant, who also made Le Bureau, is a bit of the reference.

- Despite basing our helicopter operations on Yugoslav produced Gazelles, when it comes to fixed-wing aircraft, it was almost a century ago since Serbian military last purchased French airplanes. Now, we are about to purchase Rafale fighters for a hefty sum. As a former fighter pilot, how do you feel about the role of fighter jets in modern warfare, especially in light of Ukraine war where surface to air missiles seem to be crucial. Do you feel fighter jets still deserve such a high price tag? What does Serbia gain by this purchase of Rafales except strengthening the economic partnership with France?

I'm a fighter pilot, so naturally, fighter aviation is paramount for me!

But more seriously, even though methods of warfare have clearly evolved in recent years, as seen in Ukraine with drones and unconventional assaults, what a next-generation fighter aircraft like the Rafale can accomplish before sending any troops to the ground is phenomenal. We're not talking about older generation aircraft for which ground-based air defense is difficult to bypass, evade, jam, or neutralize; we're talking about a multi-role aircraft that can simultaneously engage in air-to-air, air-to-ground, air-to-sea, and reconnaissance missions. I've faced it in training when I was on the Mirage 2000-5, which was the flagship for air-to-air Fox 3 interceptions at the time, and I felt like I was facing a Star Wars X-wing!